The Boyk Brief Podcast: The Making of Darth Zaner by Chuck Boyk

Legendary criminal defense attorney, Lorin Zaner recently
joined Chuck Boyk on The Boyk Brief podcast to discuss
his new book, The Making of Darth Zaner. Lorin Zaner has
been an Ohio Attorney for almost 50 years. He practiced
in domestic relations law, civil practice, and as a personal
injury attorney, but he is best known for his criminal
defense work.

“He is the gold standard for criminal defense on child
molestation charges,” says Chuck Boyk. “He’s a rebel. He
took no prisoners as an attorney in the courtroom.”
Zaner worked as a chemical engineer with Owens Corning
Fiberglass right out of college, but changes in the economy
led him to consider a different career path.

“I decided it’s time to go back to law school”, said Zaner.
“So that’s what I did. No clue what I was going to do, but I
figured I had a lot of options.”

Zaner considered combining his scientific background with
a law career, but a chance meeting with his sister’s friend
provided career guidance. “I ended up hooking up with Jeff
Goldstein. He mainly did criminal and domestic, but he had
a big practice, and he had lots of different cases coming
in, so I felt it would potentially be a good opportunity. I told
Jeff, “I just started law school.” He said, “See me after your
first year,” and I went from there.”

“You’re perhaps the only criminal defense attorney I know
who has an undergrad in chemical engineering,” said Chuck
Boyk.

“My engineering background really is what helped me, said
Zaner. “Because I can look at a problem, I can analyze it,
and I can write well enough. After the first quarter, out of
250-300 people, I was ranked fourth in the class.”

“You’ve had a fantastic career,” said Boyk. “What drove you
to write a book about it?”

“I was thinking about writing a book a couple years before I
did it, thinking my practice was different than most lawyers
because I did so many different things, and I had a lot of, I
thought, fascinating stories, and so I started writing down
notes, trying to remember back 50 years, because I hadn’t
kept records or notes. I’m pleased I could remember as
much as I did. So, I wrote it because I thought it would be
good to get out, so people could see what I did, and for my
family, so they’d understand why I was working so much
and not around that much.”

“You were an excellent trial attorney,” says Boyk. “You are
obviously very smart, but how did your work ethic play in
your success?”

“I hated to lose. Hating to lose means you have to be on top of
your game. And when trying a case, you need to know the facts.
You need to know the law. You need to know the rules, you need
to know the judge, you need to know the prosecutor. So, there is
so much to do, which is why I spent so many hours working and
preparing to understand the cases.”

“A lot of times I’ve seen prosecutors or defense attorneys
get up and read their opening statement or read their closing
argument, and I think that’s preposterous. You know, I know
my case, I know the facts, and when I get up, I may have some
notes, but for the most part, I’m talking off the top of my head,
from my heart, to try to get the jury to understand my thoughts,
my feelings and the facts of the case.”

“As a criminal defense attorney, you had a string of victories
on criminal trials,” said Chuck Boyk, and in real life, it’s really
rare for a criminal defense attorney to have a string of victories,
because usually the cases you go to trial on are really tough
cases.”

“I was very fortunate,” explained Zaner.” I had difficult cases.
I had a good investigator who could get information, find
witnesses. I was able to get expert witnesses. Sometimes, one
of my cases, I spent $35,000 out of my own pocket. I made no
money getting the best experts in the country on my very first
“shaken baby” case. But that’s what it took to win… As I said,
I don’t like to lose, and so it was that I just kept winning.”

“In your book”, says Boyk, “you tell a whole lot of stories, and
some are about when the client really did not take your advice.
And that’s a headache that drives attorneys crazy.”

“You’re the one who has the expertise,” explains Zaner.
“Especially if they’re hiring you, because they have a choice
who they’re going to hire, and I’ve told clients, look, I’m in
charge. I will listen to what you have to say, but I ultimately
have to make the choices as to what we’re going to do, how
we’re going to proceed in trial, which witnesses we’re going to
call. You have a right to testify or not to testify. I will give you
my advice, but ultimately that decision is yours. But, other
than that, most decisions are the trial lawyers. And if you want
to do things that I think are improper or that are going to hurt
your case, I’ll try to talk you out of it. And if we can’t, I suggest
you get another lawyer.”

“Did you enjoy the criminal cases the most?”

“The criminal cases were the most challenging,” says Zaner.
”Because you have the entire state against you. You have the
prosecutor. They have unlimited resources, and being a criminal
defense lawyer is so challenging, especially in sex cases, which I
did a lot of them; you’re presumed guilty, and you really have to
prove your innocence, and you have to know the law. You have
to know lots of things, and know the science, and I was able, in
many of my cases to attack the state’s experts, to demonstrate
they didn’t understand the science. The science was something
totally different.”

“You took the type of cases like the Sexual molestation child
cases, you knew when you decided to take those cases that a
lot of people would not like you because of that.”

“That never affected me,” explained Zaner. “It’s my job to
represent my client, and as far as I’m concerned, I’m not in a
courtroom to make friends. You know, when I’m talking to the
prosecutors and trying to work out deals, I’m always respectful. I
don’t try to be cocky or anything. But once the court trial starts,
there are no prisoners. You know you’re in there to win it.”

“Oftentimes, lawyers would refer cases to me because they
knew that I would get a better offer than they were able to get
because of my success in trials and in the courtroom. And you
know, some people have asked me, how did you get that result?
And I’ve always said, if you don’t ask, you’re never going to
get it.”

“I once had a case in Findlay. The woman had gone to trial. It
was a hung jury, 11 to one for guilt, with another lawyer. I took
over the case and tried to negotiate a deal with a prosecutor.
I couldn’t get anywhere. So we’re in the courtroom. We were
getting ready for picking the jury, and we’re sitting there before
the jury came in, and I leaned over to the prosecutor and said,
You know, we could work this out if you do a dismissal and
an apology. The judge heard it, and cracked up. And all of a
sudden, the prosecutor gave me the deal that I’ve been trying
to get, which meant my client ended up essentially with no jail.
But it never happened until I asked”

“I’m sure you’ve been asked 1000 times,” says Boyk. “How can
you represent those people?

“People have a right to have a trial. People have a right to have a
criminal defense attorney, and if you believe in the Constitution,
which I clearly do, then they have a right to go to trial. So I didn’t
really care what the general public thought about me, like CSB
workers hated my guts, but if any of them got in trouble, I got a
lot of calls from them to represent them. I got calls from police
officers. In my book, I talk about a lot of cases I had with police
officers where I represented them, in part because they knew
what I could do in their corner.”

“Which trial victory do you think you’re most proud of?”

“Well, the one client of mine who was charged. Or two, two
cases. One’s the first Shaken Baby case I did with all the eort
and the research and bringing in the top experts in the country.
In fact, one of them on cross-examination, the Prosecutor asked
my client, I’m going to show you a CT scan. Are you familiar with
it? And the doctor responds, well, yeah, back in the 1950s so
and so and I developed it. I mean, those are the kind of experts
that I had. I mean, the credentials were amazing, so winning that
case was pretty gratifying.

“When you look back on your life, do you think you were born to
do this, and do you have any regrets?”

“I don’t think I was born to do it. I had no thoughts of becoming
a lawyer through high school or college. It wasn’t until I was at
Owens Corning and I realized I needed to get more education
that I first decided to become a lawyer. I don’t have any regrets.
I think I’ve had a wonderful career. I’ve met a lot of wonderful
people.”

“I’m very happy about what I’ve been able to accomplish
and all the people that I’ve helped save. I get a postcard
from a client for many years after he was found not
guilty of life rape or another, lawyer tried to get him to
plead, and he sends me a postcard every Christmas
telling me what’s going on with his life and thanking
me once again for saving his life. Those are really gratifying.”

Episode 58 of the Boyk Brief, featuring attorney Lorin Zaner,
author of The Making of Darth Zaner is available on YouTube,
youtu.be/sPqJfV1Vnd8 Spotify, Apple, iHeart or wherever you
download your podcasts.

Check out more episodes of The Boyk Brief podcast on our
website: charlesboyk-law.com/the-boyk-brief-podcast/.